[Forum] Lord Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC & Lord Krishna was born on July 21, 3228 BC!

[Its a Forum where people give their personal opinions. It may not be related to SanghParivar.org's view]

............................................................. (A) Lord Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC : ............................................................... TIMES NEWS NETWORK

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 08, 2003 02:12:42 AM ...................................................................... "Ram was and is for real. He was born on January 10, 5114 BC," Saroj Bala, IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax says, calmly, with the assurance of one who has tangible facts. Taking on the contemporary historical interpretation of Ramayana as a religio-literary text, and Lord Ram as a semi-mythical figure, is this unassuming person who zealously devotes her spare time to research in history when she's not playing the tax mandarin. And she has chosen the unusual combination of astronomy, Internet and literary texts to provide us a startling picture of Shri Ram. This might change the way we look at history and religion. We might refuse to begin reading Indian history from that comma, or hyphen called 'Indus Valley.' We might have to stretch the beginnings by a few thousand years because, as Saroj Bala says - Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (which means to say 7,124 years ago, considering present year 2010). Excerpts of an interview with the lady who has the intellectual courage to go beyond the obvious: What got it all started... As an amateur historian, I've always been interested in Indian culture and heritage. I am proud that we're Indians and the products of one of the oldest civilisations. However, British rule changed us; we developed a sense of being somehow inferior. But I could never reconcile to theories like the theory of Aryan invasion to India in 1500 BC. That would make Indian civilization only 3,500 years old. And if you choose archaeology to dig beyond 7,000 years, you'd have to dig more than 60 metres - something not being done in India as yet. So, archaeology is not the only answer. There's a lot of objective research of another kind that needs to be carried out in earnest. So, how can we say Ram was born on January 10, 5114 B.C... .............................................................. The Valmiki Ramayana (Bal Kanda 18.8.9) mentions (the planetary positions vis-à-vis zodiac constellations) at the time of Lord Ram's birth as 'the ninth lunar day of the bright fortnight of Chaitra, asterism Punarvasu was in the ascendant and (as many as) five planets (viz, the Sun, Mars , Saturn, Jupiter and Venus) happened to be exalted (appeared in the zodiacal signs of Mesa or Aries, Makara or Capricorn, Tula or Libra, Karka or Cancer, and Mina or Pisces respectively) and Jupiter in conjunction with the Moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of Karka' My colleague Pushkar Bhatnagar of Indian Revenue Service is the real originator of this theory. He acquired a software named Planetarium, used to predict planetary movements and configurations. He had designed a software called 'Planetarium Gold Software' which is generally used by scientists to measure the distance and locations of planets from earth and to predict lunar and solar eclipses. By entering in this software, precise details of planetary positions vis-à-vis zodiac constellations described by Maharishi Valmiki in the Valmiki Ramayan, it is possible to determine important dates starting from Shri Ram's birth-date to the date of his return to Ayodhya. So, the same details were entered in the Planetarium Gold software to determine the important dates in the life of Lord Ram vis-à-vis the present planetary positions and zodiac constellations and calculated that Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC, (which means to say 7,124 years ago, considering present year 2010). More than just Ram's date of birth... ...................................... The results have not just thrown up Shri Ram's date of birth; it has actually traced the entire sequence of incidents throughout Ramayan. Pushkar Bhatnagar starts with tracing Ram's birth. Then he moves ahead in the narrative. Valmiki Ramayan states Ram was 25-years-old when he went to exile. When the configuration of planets described at this point is fed into the software, the date thrown up matches perfectly with Ram's age at that juncture of his life - 25 years. Again in the 13th year of Ram's exile, during a war with Khar and Dushan, Valmiki describes a solar eclipse. The software proves that on that given day there was indeed a solar eclipse (with Mars in the middle). This solar eclipse and the particular configuration of planets could be seen from Panchavati (longitude and latitude plainly shown in the software). Hanuman Saw 8 Constellations while flying to Lanka... ........................................................ In the Sunderkand, when Valmiki describes Hanuman crossing the sea and returning from Lanka to Rameshwaram, he gives details of 8 constellations. Usually, one can see not more than 6 constellations at a given point of time. But since Hanuman was flying across, and it must have taken him approximately 4 hrs to get there, he could see 8 constellations - in two hours one constellation would have moved out of sight and another become visible. So, in a period of 4 hrs he saw 8 constellations! Historicising Shri Ram- Man or God... ............................................ After researching on Shri Ram, I do believe he's a man who walked the earth in flesh and blood. There is an essential difference between the Valmiki Ramayana and the Tulsi Ramayana. Tulsidas was a devotee who looked up to Ram, but Valmiki was a contemporary. Valmiki has written Ram's life-history, as a biographer does - he's a contemporary of Ram, and this is not very different from what happens all over the world. Kings have always had their life-history written. The submerged bridge... ........................... Recently, NASA had put pictures on the Internet of a man-made bridge, the ruins of which are submerged in Palk Strait between Rameshwaram and Sri Lanka. This clearly should be treated as historical evidence that corroborates its mention in Valmiki Ramayana. Even if Adam's Bridge(as called by western ) is a natural geological formation, it could have been beautifully used by Ram to construct a temporary bridge for his army to cross over to Sri Lanka. this is one logic. another, which is more nearly that is, as per the description of Ram's birth time, the date come out as 10th jan, 5114BC , right?, and NASA is claiming the bridge age wud be 1.75million years ago! we know, in another calculation, that date was also calculated, if it is true! means, if we believe, Ram was born in the middle years of 28th treta yuga , then we have to believe that Ram could have been born in 1.75 million years ago(this is matching with the period mentioned by NASA about the age of Ram setu/adam bridge) !But after so many years it's impossible for any buildings, dwellings, statues, seals, coins, cloths, bones or weapons to exist. There also cannot be physical records or evidences of every person who walked this earth so long ago. physical evidence of Ramayan like what are available in Ayodhya or arbuda pahar(mount abu) , in many parts of india and sri lanka can not define the age of evidence of that much years old! Physical evidence of Ramayana all over India and sri lanka here is proving that Rama’s period were before 7000 years! and if those were happened in millions of years ago, we must have not got those evidences in front of our eyes! so, why we shud take the date million years back? NASA has the intention to misguide our hystory with the backing of our own government! the logic here is, bridge was made of stone, the age which was difined by NASA that was the age of stone! we know stones made itself in million years formation! so, they calculated it for million years! even today if, a stone brige is made, what will be the age of stone? exactly, it's million years! and this bridge was submerged due to the natural process! again, you can think that the names which were used in Ramayan or Mahabharat are not giving impression to be unknown or very old to us as long as million years! those names are so common to us even at present days! The puzzle of Indian history... ..................................... The presence of Ramayana, Mahabharata and Vedas cannot be explained by the short period between the decline of the Indus valley civilization and the Rig Vedic period. A civilization cannot suddenly burst into advanced writing. One needs to look at various sources of history to re-build it. Especially when looking at ancient history. One needs to excavate, look at literature, ancient texts, astronomy. Government apathy to archaeological diggings and investigation in this direction... ......................................................................................... There's been a very strange development in the media and the people of India. We have started seeing ancient India as something equivalent to the word 'Hindu'. Anything that has happened on this land in the past is our common heritage. But, unfortunately, politicians with vested interests have divided the people for vote bank on artificial religious lines and making it appear that anything related to ancient India was related to Hindu, which is not the case and should not be the case. [In such attitude, after some years, every history of hindu civilization will be destroyed or will not be revealed further as hindus are in large scale being converted & those once converted to other religion(muslim/christian) will not be interested to unvail the ancient civilization!] There has never been any strong will... .............................................. It is not that researches have been not taken place. There has been excellent work done by noted historians like Sir Alexander Cunningham and Dr Lal. Cunningham has written as many as 21 volumes on ancient Indian history. But one needs special permissions to access these texts. Unfortunately, Cunningham's work that has very important information has not seen the light of the day. Dr. Lal has pictured the ancient city of Dwarka and it can be read in 'The lost city of Dwarka'. He has listed out 1000 artifacts. Only 9 crores needed to be sanctioned by the government in placing a transparent tube to the sea-bed that could allow people to see for themselves the wonder that was Dwarka.(u can view a small portion of lost dwarka city in this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=221309250800892497&q=india&total... , & research report on lost dwarka city : http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Dwaraka.htm) And now people equate the sum total of ancient history to 'a temple or no-temple' at Ayodhya. Delay in research also because science hadn't arrived... Without the aid of science it is practically impossible to manually calculate the exact planetary configuration 7, 000 years back. It is science which is going to validate our history and prove that it is much older than 3,500 years. What would be the implications of your research on the society? ................................................................. I seriously feel that there can only be positive effects of my research. In fact, Indians should seriously re-look how old is our history and culture. This is not the end of the research; it's just the beginning. People should be encouraged to do more in-depth research by all means such as archaeology, dating methods and oceanography. Max Mueller had come up with the theory that Aryans had come to India in 1500 B.C. In the Internet, Max Mueller Foundations says that that they have re-looked at this theory and is of the opinion that this theory is no longer valid because Indian history is much older than that period. It's just that people have to open up their minds and find out the answers for themselves. .................................................... (B) Lord Krishna was born on July 21, 3228 BC: .................................................... Mr. Arun K. Bansal, the father of computer astrology in India, says that Hindu God Krishna was born on July 21, 3228 bc. Bansal rests his claims on two of his software packages’ the Leo Gold and the Palm computer programmes. They can simulate any planetary configuration that has occurred or could occur in time. And July 21, 3228 bc( which means to say 5238 years ago, considering present 2010 year), according to Bansal, satisfies every condition described during Krishna’s birth. Krishna was born in the Rohini nakshatra, in the Hindu month of Bhadrapada, on the 8th day of the waning moon at midnight. Bansal says this was enough information for him to nail the date, working backwards from Krishna’s death, which he says occurred at 2 pm on February 18, 3102 bc. His entire case rests on the accuracy of this date, however. Bansal quotes extensively from the Shrimad Bhagwat and the Shri Vishnu Puranas, old Hindu calendars and the Mahabharata to illuminate the clues he chose to follow. "A shloka in the 38th chapter of the Shri Vishnu Puran, says that Kaliyuga started on the day Krishna died." He unearths another shloka in the Shrimad Bhagwat Purana (part 11, chapter 6) where Brahma himself speaks to Krishna about how old he is. "Brahma says that 125 years have passed since Krishna’s birth; this is just before Krishna plans his death." Though not empirically verifiable, the advent of Kaliyuga is traditionally taken to be 3102 bc, because all our panchangas or astrological journals maintain that 5,100 years of Kaliyuga had passed before 1999 AD. The belief is supported by mathematician Aryabhatta’s astronomy treatise Aryabhattiya, the Surya Siddhanta, an astronomical text that dates back to 400 AD, and a 5th century inscription from a temple in Aihole. Deleting 125 years from the date, Bansal figured Krishna was born either in 3327 or 3228 bc. The rest he left up to his software, merely feeding in the planetary configuration that Krishna was supposedly born under, to generate the row of figures that conforms to the epochal moment. Would astrology have thrown any light on what such an individual may have been like? Outlook asked Bansal to create a birth chart based on the date. His computer churns out 15 pages sectioned under tantalising headings like Love & Romance, Appearance, Personality, and Journeys. With Saturn in his seventh house, he would have been fated to court many women’ enter Radha, the gopis and later his 16,108 wives. But since the seventh house was also under the sign of Scorpio, which guarantees a joyful marital life, he’d also have had the power to keep them happy despite having to divide his attentions among them. An attractive appearance and personality would have come from the exalted moon under the sign of Taurus. Jupiter and the exalted Mercury in the fifth house will have conferred intelligence and oratory skills. Fame and power would have come from Ketu in the 9th house, though it would also have forced him to lead a life away from his birthplace. Certainly stray statements do conform eerily to Krishna’s attributed qualities. "Endowed with a glowing complexion, you have bright eyes and an enchanting smile." Under personality comes?"You have great fancy for music, moonlight and money". Even the Bhagwad Gita seems to have its origin in his birth chart; it predicts that a person born under this astral spread would have been a great believer in karma who would advise others about karma and noble deeds. But there are a few adverse planetary configurations to contend with. The chart describes a life of continuous strife, peppered with battles and wars because Rahu, Mars and Venus are in the third house. Due to the location of Jupiter in Leo, he would also have been destined to be estranged from his mother or mothers in his case. With plans to announce the results of his research at the Somnath temple during this years Janmashtami festival for Krishna’s birthday, Bansal says that even the temple’s priests concur with his findings. "Another pandit, Shri Gyananda Saraswati in Benaras, who will come to the celebration in Somnath, has also come up with the same dates." At peace with his research, Bansal prefers to turn a blind eye to the long, long line of astrologers, godmen, NASA scientists, mathematicians and writers stretching all the way back to Aryabhatta who have worked on the same thing. They all quote the same scriptures, taking into account some or all of the astral happenings recorded in great detail, especially the ones during the calamitous time of the Mahabharata war, when Krishna was said to have been 90 years old. These include rare astronomical happenings like the solar and lunar eclipse that occurred consecutively in the space of a month just before the war, a fortnight that lasted only for 13 days instead of 15 when the moon was waning, and a comet that burned through the skies. Also, the planetary positions recorded during the Mahabharata war were roughly replicated 36 years later, when Krishna died. Most scholars prefer to concentrate on the Mahabharata war where a significant cluster of astronomical events occurred, before zooming onto their own set of dates that binds down the life of the eighth avatar of Vishnu in a specific time-frame. But the dates, while drawn from the same source, strain in opposite directions. At a colloquium organised by the Mythic Society in Bangalore in January last year, dates as wide as 1478 bc to 3067 bc were proposed. Contributors included S. Balakrishna (from NASA, US), using Lodestar Pro software, who proposed 2559 bc as the start of the war. Prof R.N. Iyengar (from the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore) brought the event closer historically, suggesting the date 1478 bc, while B.N. Narahari Achar (Department of Physics, University of Memphis, US) after "critically examining" the astronomical events in the Mahabharata pointed to 3067 bc. Authors like P.V. Vartak push back the date of the Mahabharata much further, to 5561 bc. Swami Prakashanand Saraswati, in his book, The True History and the Religion of India, comes up with the same dates as Bansal does. Considering that there are 150 astronomical references provided about the characters and events in the Mahabharata in one lakh-odd shlokas, there is little consensus on what information is worth concentrating on. In addition, there is reason to believe that our scriptures "grew" over time, incorporating events of every period. So there is precious little we can attribute collectively to one age. Many scholars in fact wonder if all the references to Krishna in the scriptures refer to one person or whether the Krishna of Vrindavan and the Krishna of the Mahabharata are two different people. But then searching for that mythical date wouldn’t be half as engaging if the process weren’t so complicated. Any wonder that even though the gods have destinies, they prefer we view them through fogged glasses? ............................................................ Astrological notes on birth of Lord Rama and Krishna ............................................................ Rama and Krishna are arguably the two most important heroes of Indian hystory. However, little effort has been made to understand the real timelines when they could have walked on this earth, in flesh and blood. I usually do not like to express my political views in this forum, but I am sorry to note that any attempt to find the truth about these historical figures is always discouraged by the so called secularists who are sitting in the upper echelons of education system in India. Rama was the seventh avatar of Vishnu and was the prince of Ayodhya. His chart has five exalted planets - four of them in Kendras. The fifth planet, Venus, is exalted in the ninth house, which is considered the most important trine. This chart has three of Pancha Mahapurusha Yoga, which I will be talking about shortly. Mercury could not have been exalted along with Sun - it cannot be more than one house away. This is quite an extraordinary chart and probably that is the main reason why researchers have not even begun to try putting a date on it. But I think its ridiculous and if we look at dates in vicinity of 7000 BC, I am sure we would definitely find such a planetary combination. There was an article in Outlook India based on a research paper by Mr Arun Bansal, according to which Krishna was born on July 21, 3228 BC. The chart of Sri Krishna comes out to be read by you about the various interesting interpretations of the chart in the article - the notable one being “You have great fancy for music, moonlight and money”. ..................................... " SHAME ON US(HINDUS)!" ..................................... THE PROOF OF EPIC-RAMAYAN & MAHABHARAT ARE AVAILABLE TO US IN A GREAT WAY AS "RAM SETU" FOR RAMAYAN AND "DWARKA-LOST CITY" FOR MAHABHARAT BUT WE HAVE NO INTEREST TO BIND OUR GOVERNMENT OR PRIVATE SPONSOR TO EXPLORE THEM! OTHER RELIGION WUD NOT SPARE SUCH HUGE PROOF IF IT WUD RELATE TO THEIR MOHAMMED OR JESUS! .......................................................................................................................